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Talk:List of Power Levels
Structure & Information I think it would be appropriate to structure the power levels into a table format to reduce the flux of information. Also, the math for Goku and Freiza's power levels is incorrect. For instance, 1% of 120 million is 1.2 million, while in the previous statement states that frieza at 1% is at 4 million. Also, while fighting Vegita, Freiza says his power level is "Over One Milion!" (insert 9000 joke here), so perhaps this would also fit into this sheet. What I propose is a table that states the character (or object of energy in the case of the spirit bomb), a description of what their power level is equatable by (ie; Kaio-ken X20 x 3 million), a description of the event (who's fighting whom, etc.), Manga novel & page (if found), episode listing (JAP, USA, etc. in sub-coloumns). That would provide users accurate, sourceable information. At the bottom of this page, we could gather as many of these sources as possible and make a very organized reference sheet to distinguish mangas, episodes, and movies in sub-categories. I will make this in Open Office's excel program and try and rig that into here, hopefully I won't get a bunch of angry responces! 09:45, 31 October 2008 (UTC) :I think a table is a good idea. If nothing else, it will probably make the information look more orderly. Perhaps we could have separate columns for the different information sources (original manga, English anime, Daizenshuu, alternate media, etc.), since they differ a little bit sometimes (or one omits information that the other doesn't). If anyone needs help making a wiki table I can help out - just leave me a message or write a reply here. -- 11:56, 31 October 2008 (UTC) Okay, I have completed the table layout. If anyone needs help filling it in, just post your sources in here, I can add them to the Open Office excell spreadsheet, and use the program I have to convert it into a table again. This took like 2 hours to configure & type up, but it looks like it was worth it! Meleniumshane90 11:18, 1 November 2008 (UTC) :It looks good. AFAIK there aren't any official sources for power levels in Dragon Ball (the anime, not the manga). Does anyone have copies of the Daizenshuu that could provide us with the levels listed there? -- 23:13, 1 November 2008 (UTC) Interesting, I'm not sure how the table looks in Firefox, but in Opera, it looks great. IE, however, looks like crap & has empty spots where table information is. I guess the spaces I put in the table will have to do for now. Meleniumshane90 02:18, 2 November 2008 (UTC) :Looks just fine in Firefox. :-) -- 08:18, 2 November 2008 (UTC) Name Choice The original title of this article was more appopriate. The title "List of characters by power level" is not only too long, but is incorrect. This is not a list of charactes, but rather a list of power levels, in order, pertaining to the character. Though this may not seem like a big deal, having accurate titles is very important in a wiki. 18:38, 29 November 2008 (UTC) :Yeah I've also taken notice to its awkward wording in contrast to the article's content, but there is certainly nothing wrong with its length. It is important to establish in the title that the content of the article follows a list structure, and not one of prose. A more fitting title might be something like List of recorded power levels or something, something generic. Storm 18:48, 29 November 2008 (UTC) Or, list of power levels? Oh wait, I think that was the original title , but yes, I like your name choice, though not all the power levels are recorded, but mathematically driven (Kaio-Ken, etc.) I think List Of Power Levels will work just fine, I'll make a recommendation to one of the admins to change it. maybe a petition system would be suiting, though the other guy just changed it out of nowhere, so perhaps just do it that way. 12:33, 1 December 2008 (UTC) :That was actually me, haha. The more I think about it though, the more List of power levels actually does sound like the better choice. Storm 02:41, 2 December 2008 (UTC) ::The current title does seem a bit awkward. List of power levels would probably be fine. List of recorded power levels or List of known power levels both also seem like suitable candidates. (You guys don't need a petition. All registered users have a move button for a reason. ;-)) -- 10:17, 2 December 2008 (UTC) Power Levels and Sourcing I will start off this discussion to try and get people motivated to put truthful information on the table and provide sources in the tables formatting layout. Add any information below this (in non table form) with accurate sourcing in order for it to be added to the table appropriately. I am ordering all of the Daizenshuu books in whatever language I can get, in order to put up the most accurate information. Meleniumshane90 14:00, 5 November 2008 (UTC) Gnorian 2:45 PM, 6 November 2008 (UTC/GTM) Raditz's Battle Power (or Power Level) is incorrect. It is listed as 1,200, but in the Daizenshuu it is listed as 1,500: http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/1928/powerlevels1df2.jpg (bottom-left) While in the dub it may have been stated as 1,200, the same as the saibamen, it was stated that the saibamen were near Raditz's power at 1,200. Excellent, very nice! Do you have a copy of the Daizenshuu that you could make some scans of? Oh, I also read that there was a typo on his power level in the Daizenshuu, but I'll have to look into that. Meleniumshane90 14:58, 5 November 2008 (UTC) Gnorian 2:35 AM, 6 November 2008 (UTC/GTM) I unfortunately do not possess a copy of the Daizenshuu, and merely found the scans on a thread discussing this very wiki... I have never heard of typos in the Daizenshuu, but my knowledge of it is limited to the power levels (battle powers). However, I have played a DBZ RPG for the SNES, and in it Raditz's PL (BP) was 1,500--so I don't think it is incorrect (if it is, it is likely incorrect to the extent where it has to become fact due to being so widely accepted...). I can find the other Daizenshuu scan too, if it is needed (I might order the Daizenshuu myself, now--if I can get it in English). Dekoshu 02:43, 6 November 2008 (UTC) Try your best there though. Automated transfer of Problem Report #11517 The following message was left by Anonymous via on 2008-07-04 22:55:22 UTC Me just being picky, but it feels like your making it up as you go along Canon source? Is there a canon source for power levels beyond the Frieza saga? Because if not, I agree that we shouldn't just throw out numbers that have no backing. -- nonoitall 03:40, 15 August 2008 (UTC) There is no canon source. The post-Frieza levels can stay, but they must be labelled as pure speculation. -Ridureyu Gnorian 2:41 AM, 6 November 2008 (UTC/GTM) While this is mostly true, Akira apparently stated in one interview that Gohan's Battle Power (Power Level) was at 300,000,000, when he fought Cell as a Super Saiyan 2. It is notable that Akira intended to end DBZ at Frieza saga, with Goku dying on Namek and Gohan protecting Earth in his place (it was far too popular for it to be dropped so quickly). This explains the incredible rising in power level (battle power) as a means to aid the climatic-feel of the intended "final saga". With this in mind, you could assume (as I already have come to the conclusion) that power levels (battle powers) never rise so very drastically again. Edit: I strayed from the point, of which being that there are some guidelines that can be used to work out power levels (battle powers). If anything, the Power Level List may be most useful in finding sources for the post-Frieza battle powers (power levels) as a means for others to work out the most likely number for unstated powers. No Canon source There are no canon sources after the Frieza saga, so it would be false information to post any. The original power levels posted were outdated, such as Frieza's final form being at 12,000,000 when really, his power level was 120,000,000. This mistake was a translation mistake years ago for a fansite.... the offical Daizenshuu has the correct levels approved by Akira Toriyama himself. -- SSJGoku93 02:17, 16 August 2008 Still it might help to add some power levels anyway. User:Kazi22 16 August 2008 I would agree with you except, we'd need to find accurate levels that are not way out of proportion. ---- SSJGoku93 In my opinion if your making up levels, then the difference between SS2 goku and SS3 goku should be greater considering how powerful it would be and the extra power he has achieved. Joeyaa 05:20, 18 August 2008 (UTC) don't forget that goku was in the real world, in other world he could use ss3 to its full potential We didn't just make them up, I searched the internet for power levels just to get an idea of fan estimates, the levels are taken from all over the place. There was a big difference. Super Saiyan 2 is around 30 billion while Super Saiyan 3 is over 100 billion. The reason there was such a big power jump from original SSJ to SSJ2 is because of the mastery of SSJ, blah blah blah. But, hey like I said, if you feel the need, add to them, help improve them to be as accurate as possible. ---------- SSJGoku93 Quit making up random numbers. There is no way to tell what their power level is. I can do what you are doing. Mr. Satan 10,000,000. You are making up random facts. They should not put down if they are not fact.------ User. I agree with user, fan-made power levels are usually varied by gigantic degrees, making most of them likely to be grossly inaccurate. One person told me that in an interview Akira Toriyama said that Gohan's power was 300,000,000--yet apparently an issue of V-Jump rates Cooler's 5th Form as 470,000,000... Unless the person I was speaking to was lying, then these two power levels certainly contradict one and other. It would help if the issue-number of V-Jump (or better yet, the scans of it) were written. ------ Gnorian This is ridiculous Why even bother to put a page like this? It's not even accurate at all. And much of it doesn't make any sense. :Personally, I'd prefer to have only officially sourced information as well. That said, as long as the unofficial levels prominently display a disclaimer and are reasonably consistent with the series, I'm not strongly opposed to their presence. Still, I've always been a bit skeptical of their maintainability, since there's no authoritative source to fall back on should a disagreement occur. So, I guess technically I support their removal, though I don't much care as long as they aren't claiming to be official. -- 22:23, 7 October 2008 (UTC) Gnorian 2:52 AM, 6 November 2008 (UTC/GTM) I agree with this. I was greatly confused when I found Vegeta's battle power (power level) when using the Galick Gun stated without a source listing, as well as many of his other states without any indication of what it is based off... I loved this list not for it's speculation, but for it's official-backing which allowed me to make as realistic a speculation as I could make based on this wiki's sources. Now that so much speculation and unofficial content has contaminated the wiki, I am unable to use it for the correction of my list of speculated BPs (PLs) and will thus remain at a great loss unless this unofficial content is either removed, or strongly labelled what it is and up for debate. Dekoshu 03:00, 6 November 2008 (UTC) It would be possible if they make it more clearer. Wasn't "OVER 9000" a mistranslation? I'm pretty sure the manga and anime translations other than the Ocean dub said 8000... -- 21:19, 29 October 2008 (UTC) Dekoshu 21:30, 29 October 2008 (UTC) Some mistranslations are great, though. :D :I checked and it looks like both versions of the anime use 9000, but if my translation of the manga is accurate, it says 8000 (and 1307 for Gohan, too). To prevent people from fighting over it, it would probably be good to list both versions and specify the source for each one. Now, does anyone have an accurately translated English manga, or know Japanese and have the original? :-) -- 21:50, 29 October 2008 (UTC) Dekoshu 22:06, 29 October 2008 (UTC) "IT'S OVER 9000!!!!! D:<" "WHAT 9000!?!??! D:" Vegeta does say over 8000 in the non-US versions, but he crushes it. Clearly, it could be over 9000 just the same. The Kaio-ken calculations are estimates anyhow, and could also figure in what energy he lost as well. Point is, both are included in my table and justified (so don't remove it). Meleniumshane90 00:14, 5 November 2008 (UTC) Kaioken was stated to double the power of the user. Vegeta was owning Kaioken Goku. Goku is not OVER NINA THOUSAAAAAAAAAAAND! XOmega 11:56, 5 May 2009 (UTC) Using Dragonball Z/GT Card Power levels since powerlevels stopped after the frieza saga how about we use the Power levels each Saiyan,Warrior and Villin were given in each of their cards. :Who was responsible for 'coming up' with the levels on the cards, and do they conflict with known official levels? -- 21:50, 29 October 2008 (UTC) Im not sure but i belive Bandia worked with akira toyrima to set the power levels for the Cards, i will do research on it. i did resaerch on the power levels and all the cards created up until the frieza saga have the same power levels as givin by akira toyrima, so after the frieza saga akira toyrima supplied each warriors power levels for the cards, voice man for Vegeta and Goku even aided with this Process. i hope ive been of help. :Neat. Perhaps those could be an additional reference. Where's the source for Toriyama's involvement? -- 23:13, 1 November 2008 (UTC) Akira Toyrima only associated with Bandia for busniess reason and The name Dragonball Z/GT, How ever he did not interfere with Bandai Setting The PowerLevels Which still Makes The Powerlevels on The Card The most Officaial and only Officail Powerlevels, Which We Should use to Help The Wiki. :Well... he hasn't interfered with a lot of different things that don't quite harmonize with canon Dragon Ball. He was actively involved in selecting the power levels in the series, and AFAIK the Daizenshuu; can the same be said about the cards? If not, they could probably still be noted, but I'm not sure if we could consider them to be official. -- 22:41, 2 November 2008 (UTC) Gnorian 3:15 AM, 6 November 2008 (UTC/GTM) My only experience with the DBZ card game was a GBA edition (which I didn't play much due to its system of combat being unappealing to my tastes) and I believe the battle powers (power levels) in that may have been inaccurate. However, the GBA game may not only be different from the actual card game, but my memory may also be correct. If we could get a-hold of the power levels listed on the cards, then this issue could easily be solved. Can you list more power levels? Dekoshu 21:32, 29 October 2008 (UTC) All I see is the Trunks Sagas' power levels of Trunks. "Show me your moves!!!!!" :There are no official power levels stated after the Trunks Saga. -- 21:50, 29 October 2008 (UTC) Dekoshu 22:04, 29 October 2008 (UTC) Okay then Power Level Listings that conflict with the Anime, Manga, and or Daizenshuu 7 Gnorian 1:45PM UTC/GMT 20/11/08: This is a listing of all the incorrect power levels in this wiki (that I could find, that is). Nappa: It's listed as seven thousand for Nappa's power level, but is listed as four thousand in the daizenshuu. Also, it doesn't add up for Nappa to be nervous of Goku's first reading of five thousand and his second reading of over eight thousand, if his BP (PL) was this high. What makes tihs even more bizzare, is Nappa's BP is listed as FOUR thousand when he has powered to his maximum to try and defeat Goku... Vegeta vs. Recoome: Here Vegeta's power is stated as 28,000, but it is 30,000 in the Daizenshuu. Gohan and Krillen vs. Goku-Ginew: Both Gohan and Krillen are listed as being stronger than Goku-Ginew at 27,000 and 24,500. However, it can be noted that even with two of them against Ginew, who wasn't used to his new body, they were having trouble beating him, and certainly weren't having a flawless victory. Their BPs likely were likely much less than that, otherwise they would've finished Goku-Ginew quickly. Vegeta vs. Jeice: .....That is quite a boost O_O: From 30,000 to 260,000 (especially considering Vegeta's BP only went up by one third after the Earth-Battle, where he was beaten to near-death). He does seem to gain some gigantic boost after resting, considering he squares off with Frieza for the first few minutes, but he didn't seem to have that huge an advantage over Jeice (Jeice did manage to punch him in the face a couple of times... of course Vegeta was sleep-deprived). This part of the series is very confusing with Vegeta's battle power... Unless someone comes up with something brilliant, I think it should be labelled as a guess if it stays at all. The same goes for Vegeta's power when he fought Frieza's first form. Cooler's Revenge: .......These seem VERY inaccurate... I'd like to see scans of that V-Jump issue before I believe that's Cooler's fourth form, WITHOUT all the buff-ness and awkwardness Frieza underwent, is almost as strong as a Super Saiyan... yet Goku still managed to trade blows with him in base for a while. What also doesn't seem to add up, is that Captain Salza's Battle Power is lower than Neize's--it's true that the stronger person isn't always the leader, but he was notably the toughest out of Cooler's Armoured Force (or whatever they were called). After all, Salza was the only one out of his squad to survive till the end of he movie (where he was destroyed... but still). I'd also like to stress that the non-official power levels listed should either be removed, or very clearly labelled that they are not official. xOmega Nappa was fighting equal to Goku after focusing and powering up. Goku says the fight will take forever (and then he uses Kaioken). There's no reason why he wouldn't be 7,000+. :Just a small comment: everywhere in the Manga and Anime it's stated that during the Vegeta Saga and Frieza Saga, only earthlings and a few more characters could actually change their power levels (during a fight, I guess they can improve really slowly through time). For example, Vegeta's power level is stated to be 18,000 by Zarbon when he arrives to Namek, and it's never mentioned that it's his "powered-up" level or anything. Frieza is surprised that Namekians can suppress their power-levels and then make it higher; the Ginyu Force is also baffled when thinking that the power-level the scouter gives them can change, even after a powerup. The exception is Captain Ginyu, which comments that has the coveted ability to change his power-level, and others that change their power levels but only when transforming physically, such as Frieza, Zarbon or Great Ape Vegeta. This and other comments make me think that, even though a warrior serving under Frieza as Nappa can power-up, if you read his power level before and after the power-up with a scouter, you would get the same level. That's why Raditz was so surprised when Goku and Piccolo changed their power levels when powering up to attack him. Therefore, if Nappa's power level is stated to be 4,000, it never changed. Powering up only allowed him to use its full potential. Therefore, it makes sense that Nappa's power-level before Goku and when fighting Goku is the same, it's just that Nappa was using less of it first and more of it later. At least that's how I see it. You "could" think that if he is not using all his power-level he has a lower power level at the time, but that would be like saying that a strong person is less strong if he pushes with less force, which is not true. Sega381 18:53, 24 June 2009 (UTC) Automated transfer of Problem Report #15036 The following message was left by Gnorian via on 2008-11-05 19:34:43 UTC Raditz's Power Level (or Battle Power) is listed as 1,200. However, in the Daizenshuu, it was listed as 1,500: http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/1928/powerlevels1df2.jpg While in the dub, his battle power was stated as the same as the saibamen (1,200) it was stated that they were near the same power in the original Japanese. Automated transfer of Problem Report #15038 The following message was left by Gnorian via on 2008-11-05 19:53:31 UTC Nappa's Power Level (or Battle Power) is listed as 7,000 when fighting the Z-Warriors, but is listed as 4,000 in the Daizenshuu: http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/2931/yehbiatch7zt.jpg I have never heard such a high estimate of Nappa's power, and would assume this was a misinterpretation and exaggeration on the editor's part. The following message was left by DoctorZack 10:03, 6 June 2009 (UTC) : I'm extremely impressed at Piccolo's 3,500 than anything else. Automated transfer of Problem Report #15039 The following message was left by Gnorian via on 2008-11-05 19:59:04 UTC Vegeta's Power Level (or Battle Power) is stated as 28,000 when he battles the Ginew Force, but is listed in the Daizenshuu as 28,000: http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/2931/yehbiatch7zt.jpg Adjustments to the table There are admittedly some discrepancies between various official sources for power levels. (IE, Raditz' power level being 1,200 vs 1,500, or Goku's power level being 8,000 vs over 9,000, etc.) I was thinking that instead of having one column for power levels, it might make more sense to have a few for the different sources. Like, one for the manga, one for the anime, one for the Daizenshuu, and if English translations differed from the originals, we could have a separate column for them as well. (This might eliminate the need for the two source columns.) Alternatively, we could try stating each version of a power level in one cell, and have a single source column where the sources would be listed in respective order. It just seems like right now it's a little confusing as to where the information on some of these conflicting levels is coming from. I don't have copies of the Daizenshuu or anything, but I wanted to run this idea by you guys in case someone with the resources and time feels up to doing it. -- 11:23, 3 December 2008 (UTC) Cooler Why is Cooler's power level stated as being higher than SSJ Goku's? :Cooler's power level in his transformed state outclasses Goku's Super Saiyan transformation during the Frieza Saga, hands down, and unlike numerous power levels in the chart, at least there is a citation with Cooler's. [[User:Vixen Windstorm|'Storm']] [[User talk:Vixen Windstorm|'talk']] –''' [[User:Vixen Windstorm#Projects|'''projects]] 20:56, 15 January 2009 (UTC) But it says one this Wiki's own article, "Cooler is able to easily overpower Goku in this form, until at length he grows tired of the fight and feels Frieza had further shamed his family by dying at Goku's hand. As he makes plans to destroy the planet, Goku's rage transcends, transforming him into a Super Saiyan. Off-guard and arrogant, Cooler is batted around easily, and then he realizes how Frieza lost to Goku." Hyper Zergling 02:11, 16 January 2009 (UTC) :The last power level for Goku's Super Saiyan transformation in the is while he battles Frieza on Namek. The fight with Cooler takes place at a later time, in a non-canon universe. Even if Cooler's Revenge could be properly placed into the Dragon Ball timeline, it's still non-canon to the mainstream series and chances are Goku's power level in the film wouldn't be concise with the film's position in the series' timeline. Long-answer-short: Cooler's Revenge is non-canon but what's certain is Goku would be stronger in the film than he was when he first becomes a Super Saiyan. [[User:Vixen Windstorm|'Storm']] [[User talk:Vixen Windstorm|'talk']] –''' [[User:Vixen Windstorm#Projects|'''projects]] 02:30, 16 January 2009 (UTC) I very much have to disagree with Cooler's BP. Based on an interview with Akira, Cell and SSJ2 Gohan had about 300,000,000 BP... Meaning Cooler and SSJ1 Goku would be stronger than an SSJ2. Gnorian 14:22 13th of February 2009 (UTC) Do you have a source for this? [[User:Vixen Windstorm|'Storm']] [[User talk:Vixen Windstorm|'talk']] –''' [[User:Vixen Windstorm#Projects|'''projects]] 17:41, 13 February 2009 (UTC) New Structure & Input I just did a major restructure on the table & will be doing a complete revision of it this weekend. Anyone who can provide scans for information can send them to me on here (link-wise) or on my email - pm me. I want this table to be a useful resource for everyone, but will need further data, I've been watching the Japanese, Ocean Dub, old & new FUNimation dubs to get the power levels. I've also been using the Daizenshuu 7, but don't have ALL the pages to work with. I've removed some of the power levels given on here because they were added as an opinion with zero physical basis (for instance, the Kamehameha Kao-Ken X3 & 4 Goku used on Vegita) and have tried to limit the table to fact. Also, I'm trying to keep this somewhat chronological (to the extent of when it is presented to you in the anime). I'll be back on tomorrow to try and fix the bugs out of this table, I think something was sketchy on one or two of the lines, because in Opera, I see an additional collumn where it shouldn't be. Meleniumshane90 02:45, 18 February 2009 (UTC) Recoome Just wondering what the source on some of these unsourced entries are — particularly Recoome's 40,000? -- 05:23, 2 March 2009 (UTC) i want to know what was the powe level of zarbon monster in daizenshuu7 What's this stuff about 1.5x Kaioken? Kaioken was stated to double the user's power. In Vol. 20 (which is after Goku says "Kaioken!!!"), It says "Not even doubling his strength through the Kaio-ken was enough to stop the saiyan...". Toriyama made a mistake with Kaioken x2.Also, Goku said that his battle with Nappa would go on forever, and they were shown fighting equally a few pages back from there. That should make Nappa at least 7,000. xOmega 01:16, 19 June 2009 (UTC) Table format I've been using lately the new Wikia editor, which just appeared and allows to edit the wikis in a graphical way. It seems to be breaking table compatibility with some browsers? If so, I guess the creators of the editor should be noted. Sega381 03:08, 20 June 2009 (UTC)